On today’s episode, I’m sitting down with the brilliant Katy Leeson.
Katy’s journey from stepping into Social Chain as ‘the old lady ruining the fun’ (her words, not mine!) to scaling it into a multi-million-pound powerhouse is nothing short of incredible.
We talk about everything – managing imposter syndrome, leading with care, and why sometimes a phone that’s not plugged in can lead to the biggest opportunities.
Oh, and there’s plenty of laughter, life lessons, and a few surprises along the way.
Highlights:
- (2:46) Katie’s Career Journey and Early Roles
- (6:10) Growth and Success at Social Chain
- (10:31) Imposter Syndrome and Personal Growth
- (19:19) Leadership Style and Personal Life
- (31:59) Values and Legacy
- (34:10) Some Embarrassing Stories
Connect with Katy:
Transcription:
Dawn McGruer
Hey, it’s Dawn McGruer, the business growth coach.
And welcome to Dawn of a New Era, the podcast where we talk all things health, wealth, and happiness and where founders share the good and bad and ugly of being an entrepreneur.
Welcome to the dawn of the New Era podcast on the private island. And it has been a magical past few days and also the first time that we’ve met in real life.
So we have got the amazing Katie Leeson on today’s podcast.
And I think one of the things that is so important to share, and I love to share how we met, so it turns out that we have common connections and I’ve been following you on LinkedIn for a while. And for those that don’t know, Katie’s history is very diverse in terms of what she’s done.
But she’s got an amazing story and the great news is she’s going to share it with us. So we met on a zoom call, and I’m trying to think exactly how that came about. I think I’d message you on Instagram.
And then we decided to have a chat. We felt that there was a common bond and obviously we’re both passionate about dogs. And you have Fozzy and I have Paddy Murphy.
So I invited you, obviously, to come on my podcast and you agreed to not only come on the podcast, but to come to a private island in the middle of Oxford and also speak at my event. So introduce yourself, tell us a little bit about you.
I’m sure lots of people have been following you and know a little bit about your history, but tell us a little bit about Katie.
Katie Leeson
I will. So thank you so much. Honestly, this last couple of days as well has been amazing.
I’ve loved it with the women and the group, and I’m so excited to do this podcast with you. Yeah. My name’s Katie Leeson and I am. I don’t know how to announce myself now because I’m in a bit of.
Dawn McGruer
A transition in the growth stage. The new business. Exciting consultancy, Mentoring.
Katie Leeson
Yeah, consultant and mentor all around. Similar to you around growth.
And the reason for that is because my career has all been around growth, whether that’s been fast business growth or whether that’s been creating fan base growth or community growth.
So, yeah, I’ve kind of moved into that world where I want to now share all of my experience to help other people who are going through a similar sort of thing.
Dawn McGruer
And I love talking to you about it because I started my first business at 21. It’s not all been sunshines and Rainbows.
It’s been a turbulent time and I think what’s nice is that you’ve worked in some of the most amazing businesses.
And some of you who know Katie Leeson will know that Katie worked in Social Train, which is kind of like the one business that we, we kind of know because it was so fast paced, it sounded so much fun, it was exciting. Stephen Bartlett was heading it up. We’re gonna have to open up and share a little bit about this. So how old were you when you started Social Chain?
And kind of share with us how it even occurred. How did you get into that amazing business?
Katie Leeson
I started in marketing straight out of uni and I was in very traditional media, so I was buying press, radio and outdoor space and I loved it, honestly. You know, when you think about not having to work a day in your life because you love it, that’s what I was like.
Never got the Sunday scaries, but I’ve always been that person to kind of push myself. If I’ve stopped learning, I get an itch and I always. I call it my comfy slippers. I had my comfy slippers on, so I knew I needed something else.
And I moved from doing that buying into moving into a new business and marketing role within Mediacom.
And I did that for a while and there I learned all about how businesses were formed, how they created money, all the contracts, all that sort of stuff, the commercial side of it.
And I always knew though, that I didn’t have digital in my skill set and I knew the way the world was moving and I thought, if I don’t do this, I’m not going to future proof myself. I’m going to get left behind. And Social Chain wasn’t really well known at the time Steve started following me on Twitter.
Dawn McGruer
I love the fact you call him Steve, like we all know him as Stephen. But of course, you know, I know.
Katie Leeson
It comes out and I probably should be. I probably should full title him, shouldn’t I, Stephen?
But yeah, he started following me on Twitter and I looked at what they were doing and they just done some really exciting guerrilla activations in Manchester and they’re social and everything they were doing just seemed like it was fun and I was kind of craving that in Manchester.
I think there was a lot in London and I, I was at that sort of pivotal point in my career where I could have gone to London to ex, like to move forward, but I was craving staying. I’m a bit of a home bird. I like being near my parents, far enough away station My mom can’t just walk in the house, but I like being close.
And I was looking for something and I thought, this is quite exciting. It was purely because I wanted to learn about digital. So I reached out and I said, you’ve got a couple of roles. Can we have a chat?
We talked and I talked to the leadership team for a good few months, and then they offered me ops director. And I was. I think I was 31, 32, but the average age was 22.
Dawn McGruer
I was gonna say, you’re, like, ancient. You’re like.
Katie Leeson
They all said, the old lady is coming in to ruin the fun. Old.
Dawn McGruer
I’m not old, Casey. I’m like, 45.
Katie Leeson
I don’t feel old now. I still feel like I’m like a young girl running around doing what I want. Yeah.
So I went in as ops director and I did that and I helped them with their structure a lot from what I’d learned in that new business and marketing role. How to commercialize it better, how to structure the agency, the types of clients that we wanted and the way we wanted to work.
And then six months in, Stephen decided he was going to go and set up in New York and needed someone to run the UK operation. So I interviewed and was made managing director of.
Dawn McGruer
I mean, what does that even feel like? I mean, like, wow, like, that’s huge.
Katie Leeson
It was huge. I did the interview and I thought I’d done it terribly. And I cried after it. I sat in cafe near and I cried.
Dawn McGruer
I love it. We all have perceptions, don’t we, how things went. I remember doing a stage speaking presentation and thinking, oh, my God, it was disastrous.
It was one of the best things I’ve ever done. And ended in, like, you know, a round of applause, standing ovation. So you cried. How did. How did you get the announcement? Did he. Did he tell you?
Katie Leeson
Like, he. It was actually really lovely. I’ve not actually talked about this, so I was like, so, yeah, I cried in Cafe Nero.
And then a couple of days after I was going, it was pulled up outside. I remember exactly where I was.
I was outside my great auntie’s house waiting to go in, and I got an email, and it was the nicest email about myself that I’ve ever read from Steve. That was like, there’s no one else that could take this job. And it was all about my care. The way that he knew that I would look after the team.
Yeah, it was the nicest thing. I should have kept it. And I didn’t see one of the.
Dawn McGruer
Things I Know that he shared a lot on events and things like that and on podcasts, is he has really gone in to share the value of. Of how Social Chain grew and that really, that that was all to do with the team that you formed. What was the difference in terms of, like, what.
What made it special in terms of the people you brought together? And why was Social Chain so special?
Because there’ll be people, you know, listening to this who maybe don’t know the ins and outs of what Social Chain was and why it was so unique.
Katie Leeson
It was just such an exciting place to be. And I think that was because it was a group of young, passionate people who wanted to do really good work and we were all on the same mission.
And that’s what made it work. It was, like, so fun. Every day something was going to happen.
I remember in my first week, having done new business for an agency and having to bang on doors trying to get into anyone. And in my first week, I went down to London with Steve and we were at Coca Cola, Apple, New Look, I can’t remember where there was a few others.
And I was like, these are the biggest brands in the world. And I’ve just walked in the door in the first week. And I knew then that there was something special about that place.
There’s just something like, you can’t. I don’t know if you could recreate that, to be honest. There was just a buzz and we just went with the motivation and the motion that happened.
But the team, really the common denominator, we were all very different. A lot of the original team were all created as social natives. They were kids in their bedroom that started pages of influence on Twitter.
They just knew social. They knew exactly what to do. And I think where I managed to get it right is that I didn’t try and come in and change that.
I let them teach me how to do it because part of me and part of my values is learning.
So I was just obsessed with understanding how they’d done it and then matching that up with people that I’ve worked with in the past that I loved working with. And I knew that I’d enjoy having working time with. And my director’s team was very much that.
It was people that I’d worked with at Mediacom, and I loved it. And it was just a group of people who were really passionate about the company, the work. They just cared. We all cared.
Dawn McGruer
So seeing how fast Social Chain actually grew, we all assumed from the outside that you all had your shit together and that all the processes are running smoothly. But you told me something yesterday about a telephone. Please share that story. It made me like we so did.
Katie Leeson
Not have our shit together. It was honestly like every day was a learning. It was like every day was a new day. We were so fortunate.
We never had to do any outbound new business because we, the notoriety and the work we were doing spoke for itself. So one day I sat in the office and I turned around and behind me was the phone. And I looked and the phone wasn’t plugged in.
I was like, excuse me, team, the phone’s not plugged in here. We. And then we plugged it in. And literally not long after plugging that phone in, the phone rang. We answered it. It was Mercedes Benz.
And I was just sat there thinking, dear God, I wonder what else we’ve missed by not having this phone plugged in. There was little things like that that we were just running at such speed.
Dawn McGruer
It’s crazy. It’s craziness, isn’t it? And I think that is, like, that’s part of the fun. And when I remember, like, looking at Social Chain, it was the agency.
And what was unique is the agency wasn’t in London and that was like. It was like the Northwest. And it was the positioner that digital and agencies had. So I’ll remember that forever.
One of the reasons, obviously, I reached out to you was I’d listen to your podcast, which I love, and one of the things that really resonated with me and that I’ve experienced was imposter syndrome. And I truly believe that, you know, 70%, if not more people have experienced, experienced it.
I’m not sure you ever get over it, but I’ve learned to deal with it. And when I. I got my publishing contract, I really struggled with the fact that everyone was, like, celebrating this.
And when I handed in my manuscript, I was like, what happens if no one buys it? You know, I mean, all of these things go through your mind and then, you know, then it hits bestseller and all of the things happen.
But when you got that MD job, what was that like in terms of, like, the mental struggle?
Katie Leeson
Horrendous. Because if you think I went into that job to learn, I went into that company to learn about digital.
And six months into learning about digital, which is quite a big, like, a lot to learn, I was running the company and I didn’t know how to cope with it. I just was putting so much pressure on myself as I am leading these people. But I don’t have a clue what.
Dawn McGruer
We do I love it. I love it.
Katie Leeson
And I’m brutally honest about that as well. And it took me a while. I used to, I remember just sitting in meetings, hiding, like we’d be in client meetings.
And I thought, I’m not going to say anything because I’m going to say something that’s going to embarrass the name Social Chain. And I felt like I was a the name Social. I was representing the name Social Chain and I was representing Steve.
And I thought, if I say something wrong, that’s it, I’ve ruined it. I’ve wrecked the 80s. The whole thing’s gonna fall down.
Dawn McGruer
I love how dramatic we can be.
Katie Leeson
Oh, no, this is it. I’m gonna break it. And I was very fortunate because the culture that we built had lots of elements to it that helped people.
And one of the things, one of the benefits we had was a therapist. And I, I think I was talking to Steve about it and he said, go and see the therapist. Go and see what she says. So I went.
I was also going through a breakup at the time, so my head was all over. You imagine getting the biggest job of your life, but also like losing a six year relationship at the same time.
So my head was scrambled and it was like completely out the blue to me. That as well. So went to see the therapist, Karen. Forever grateful to Karen.
She asked me, she was asking me questions about the role and she said, what do you think of when you think of a managing director? And I just sat there and I was like an old man in a grey suit sat in a corner. She just looked at me, she went, yeah, but you’re not that, are you?
And I was like, no.
Dawn McGruer
And that’s where the disconnect is. Yeah.
Katie Leeson
And that’s where the imposter syndrome was, is my expectations of what I thought a managing director was and what the reality was of who I am. But she helped me break down what my skills were and why they gave me that role.
Because even when Steve sent me that lovely email, I didn’t believe it. I just thought, this is just madness. And then I really lent into the things that I knew that I could do to make change.
Dawn McGruer
And when you shared the numbers with me, like yesterday, you were talking at the event and you were our guest speaker, which was fabulous. But what were the numbers? Like, where did you take the agency to? Because this is mind blowing.
Katie Leeson
Yeah. So the agency part, my part was when I started there, it was 2 million in revenue. And obviously being a startup, it wasn’t making profit.
And Then when I left, well, there was 30 people as well at that point, about 30. When I left, it was 130 people, about 15 million in revenue. It doesn’t seem real. And we were very healthy profit making.
Dawn McGruer
It’s amazing, isn’t it? And it’s so inspiring because even in that time, women still were not leading in the digital space.
I’ve worked in digital a long time and being passionate about bridging the skills gap, passionate about the gender pay gap. If this business was like, so amazing, people are going to ask the question, like, why did you leave?
Katie Leeson
Honest answer. We constantly went for growth. Every year we went for growth. And it got to the point where I felt like I couldn’t take it to the next level.
I’d done six years, worked really hard in that time, helped to push what’s next. What’s next? And it was always, what’s next? And I had to just be really brutally honest. And it was me and the two directors, or the two directors.
We all handed our notice in on the same zoom call. Yeah, I know.
Dawn McGruer
I so wish I’d been on that.
Katie Leeson
Call to see that we’d actually been axed, throwing the three of us and decided that we were gonna do it.
Dawn McGruer
Was there any alcohol in.
Katie Leeson
Actually, that was before we’d even had a drink. And we were like, no, we’re all really tired.
But we all kind of said, like, we could have sat there and taken a really good wage and we could have carried on, but it wouldn’t have been the right thing for the agency. It wouldn’t have been the right thing for the team. They needed people to lead and push them.
Dawn McGruer
That’s a brave move.
Katie Leeson
Oh, but it felt right.
Dawn McGruer
Yeah.
Katie Leeson
It didn’t. It never felt like it was a silly move. It felt right. And there was something in me as well. That leading people and that many people for so long.
I needed to get back into doing the work because I was so far removed from doing the do. I was doing all the people stuff. I was dealing with HR issues. There was. It was the middle of COVID as well.
So it was like 130 people working in different environments, managing that, changing in how they saw our culture. And I just thought, I want to do work again. I want to do the nice stuff again. So, yeah, it didn’t feel scary, it just felt right.
Dawn McGruer
So what did life look like then after Social Chain? What was the next move?
Katie Leeson
I had met Gary Neville while I was at Social Chain because of my LinkedIn. It’s so weird how things happen Isn’t it? So built my LinkedIn, I’m nearly on 70,000 followers now, which is amazing.
Just picked it back up again, so hopefully that’ll continue to grow. And Gary had got in touch through a Sky bet, which was a client of Social Chain, and obviously they work closely. Gary wanted to start his LinkedIn.
So we had sat in my house on a Zoom call with Gary Neville and all of his team. I’m thinking, what is this?
Dawn McGruer
Was Fozzie there as well?
Katie Leeson
No, this was Pre.
Dawn McGruer
Oh, pre Fozzie, was it?
Katie Leeson
Pre Foz. Yeah, Pre Foz. Got this call, had a call, and then Gary said, would Social chain manage my LinkedIn, help me with my personal brand? And I said, no.
I said no, because it wasn’t the right business model for Social Chain. It wasn’t a way that we could make money out of, and also we wouldn’t have done a good job.
And in doing that, I introduced him to someone else who’s now still doing his personal brand with him. But I think me saying no and being honest with him, we kind of bonded a little bit over that.
Dawn McGruer
It’s integrity, it’s honesty and people respect that. Right?
Katie Leeson
Yeah, yeah. And I would never try and do something that we couldn’t just because it’s Gary Neville. Also, I’m an Oldham fan, so it didn’t bother me at all. But he.
We had a conversation and he was saying they were struggling with growing the fan base at Salford City. And I’ve been going to watch Oldham since I was 6 years old with my dad, and he said, do you want to do a bit of a project, a consultancy project?
And I just thought, yeah, this is going to give me that fire of doing the do again in an area that I’m actually really passionate about. So I did a project for him how to grow their social, how to grow their marketing and ways to live as a football club in a digital age.
And I just loved the process. I was presenting it. This was after I’d already handed my notice in.
I was presenting it back to him and he just said, why don’t you just come and do this for a job?
And it was actually my dad that sold it to me because I was talking to dad and he just said, you’re going to help kids have dreams like you did going to Boundary park when you were little.
Dawn McGruer
Oh, that’s just giving me chills.
Katie Leeson
Yeah, I know.
Dawn McGruer
That is powerful.
Katie Leeson
Yeah, I know.
Dawn McGruer
Yeah.
Katie Leeson
And Gary could have said anything to me, but my dad so sold that job to me. So, yeah, I did that. I did head up Salford City team, media team and also was on the overlap, which was just the best experience.
Dawn McGruer
Gary’s YouTube.
Katie Leeson
That’s his YouTube channel. Yeah, yeah.
So Gary’s obviously really well known as being on Sky Sports and things like that, but wanted his own media platform that he could own and have conversations. So, yeah, the overlap was born and managed to help launch Stick to Football, which is the one where he’s sat around the table with Roy and Gary.
Jamie, Ian and Jill met David Beckham got a hug.
Dawn McGruer
Was that the highlight?
Katie Leeson
It really was, yeah. Don’t tell Gary that.
Dawn McGruer
I’m sure he’s not going to be listening. Hi, Gary.
So in, in terms of obviously social chain, I think another burning question people will have is like, what is Stephen like as a person and what is he like to work with? I mean, you shared some things yesterday which I just found fascinating.
Fascinating about his like inner psyche and personality and, and why he was so prevalent in being able to scale that business.
Katie Leeson
I think there’s something about vision driven entrepreneurs. They’ve all got a similar trait. Gary’s very similar. They know the next thing before anyone else. It’s like a weird. They just are knowing.
And Steve just pushed us constantly to move fast and to get stuff done, but in a direction that he knew was going to be the next big thing. And I don’t think I’ve experienced many people that have got that gift.
Dawn McGruer
You said he was quite science driven, like he was really into the numbers and the data, loves data.
Katie Leeson
So if you watch Steve and watch what they’re doing, they’ll do stuff, they’ll test a lot until they get it right and then they’ll repeat that for a while and then they’ll test something else. He never settles. He’ll constantly be testing.
And that’s what I loved about it, because you knew that it was fun stuff but really backed by an understanding of what was going to work.
And for me, having gone from big agency networks where it was like trying to move an oil tanker to get anything done, make any change, going into a place there where you could make a change and it was happening the next day was just so fun and it was great. And I think I’ve taken that into every business I’ve been into. I hate sitting and slowness now, can’t cope with things being slow.
I have to like get stuff done. And I think that’s definitely from him.
Dawn McGruer
So obviously being very career driven, being super successful, which obviously you struggled to connect with, haven’t we all been there.
Katie Leeson
I don’t know what you’re talking about.
Dawn McGruer
Dawn, but we’ve all been there. You know, I think it was a really fascinating conversation.
We had this yesterday, today about having the disconnect of not embracing when people from the outside are seeing this super successful woman who is showing up, making changes, leading, you know, a groundbreaking agency, you. You didn’t feel that. And obviously I’ve been through experiences where I did a lot from the age of 21. People would say it, I just. And I never landed.
I never felt it until I did some work on my values. I understood what motivated me because it wasn’t money, it wasn’t all of those things. It was more about enrichment and experiences.
What has changed in terms of the person you were then to understanding who you are now?
Katie Leeson
Oh, everything. Everything. I have been through quite a journey with therapy and I think I.
Before I went through that journey, I was making every decision based on what other people wanted, like my family background. My dad broke his back just before I was born and was in a plaster cast from under his armpit to the bottom of his back.
And forever, like since when I was born till now, has really struggled with that. We’ve been through numerous operations and my mum had quite a difficult time with her career. So I never really put myself. I was the fixer.
That’s what I figured out through therapy. I was the one that wasn’t going to cause trouble. I wasn’t going to like be the center of attention.
All my concerns were always around making sure everything was all right. So much so that every birthday when I blew out the candles, I always wished that my dad’s back would get better.
It was never about me, it was always about that. So. And that isn’t even an exaggeration, that’s the truth from a very. Since I can remember doing birthday cakes, that’s what I’d wish for.
And I think that’s just what I’ve been conditioned and the way that I’ve just live my life is based on what everyone else needs from me, not what I actually need. And I don’t know what changed. I think my personal life and my relationships have just been so bad. I’m terrible.
It’s been awful that I decided that I needed to do something because I couldn’t keep doing the same. I couldn’t keep feeling the heartbreak every time.
So I, I think I stopped, took a step back, started thinking about what I wanted and what I needed and that people pleaser now is still there. But it’s fading away. And that’s when I did my work on my own values.
And it was that that made me realize that a lot of my decisions have been based on my values. I just didn’t realize it.
And now I can actually move in a way and I can turn up in relationships and I can put boundaries in based on me and my values.
And that is something I’m really passionate about sharing with the world as well now because I just don’t think it’s really talked about that much or how to find them.
Dawn McGruer
I think this is it.
And I think there’s also pressure like being in the corporate and the online space, you know, this whole kind of, I suppose, outside looking in what they see versus reality. And I think, you know what, what is improving is we’re talking about things more as female entrepreneurs.
Do you think that being so focused on your career took a toll on your personal life? Do you think that you were more focused on career than looking at what you actually really wanted?
Katie Leeson
I think my career has always been a flow, so I’ve never really had to try. Not I work hard, don’t get me wrong. But it’s not been a conscious effort to be like, right, I’m going to be md.
Dawn McGruer
It’s evolved.
Katie Leeson
It’s evolved. Whereas I feel like my personal life.
Dawn McGruer
Has been a slog, an uphill bloody battle. Yeah, I mean, we’ve all been there, right? And I think the thing is, try.
Katie Leeson
Dating in your 40s. Honestly, it’s horrible.
Dawn McGruer
Have you done the online?
Katie Leeson
Yeah, I’m on Raya. I don’t like. I just don’t like it.
Dawn McGruer
It’s weird.
Like I think back, I mean, I’ve been in a relationship for like 12 years, but even back then, because I was like, you know, 30s, I ended up meeting my partner on a trampoline through friends barbecue and then proceeded to maybe have a few drinks. And it evolved from there. But I can’t imagine like the online dating thing.
And you know, for me it was like you’d go to bars, you would meet people in real life, it’s a whole different spectrum. And I sound ancient now to anyone who’s listening in the 20s, but it’s daunting. So how do you even navigate that?
Katie Leeson
I mean, I’d like some help. You don’t really. No one talks to each other anymore when you’re out, you don’t. It’s not the same. The connections aren’t the same.
And then even online, it’s a real struggle to try and build meaningful Connections. Because it’s so easy just to go to the next person if someone doesn’t give you what you want in that instant. So I.
That’s why I’m not really on online dating, because I felt like it was ruining my own self esteem.
Dawn McGruer
It’s very transient, isn’t it? It’s very thick.
Katie Leeson
Yeah, it is. And it makes you think you’re not good enough because someone can quickly just ghost you because they’re talking to someone.
Dawn McGruer
Else and there’s how many conversations they’re having.
Katie Leeson
Oh, I know.
Dawn McGruer
I mean, there could be like 900. And then I always think about, what’s that program? The MTV Catfish.
Katie Leeson
Oh, God.
Dawn McGruer
I always think about that and think, is that who you’re really speaking to? And the thing is, is we’ve been bred now to have this distrust.
And whereas it did seem a lot simpler, like you would swap a number and like you’d meet up, now there’s a lot more kind of moving parts that go with it. So what do you see for you then, like in the next sort of, you know, between now, in next year? What.
What’s going to be the big pivotal changes in life and business?
Katie Leeson
In life. I want to.
I think I’ve been so focused on hitting targets and doing things to get a company to where it needs to be that I want to now spend the time on hitting my own targets, personal targets, honestly. Brutal honesty, finding someone to share that with is part of my plan. Like I want a partner.
I want to be with someone that I can celebrate my successes with and enjoy life. I’ve got Fozzie, but Fuzzy, well, he’ll.
Dawn McGruer
Have to approve of. Make sure Fuzzy needs a dad. Yeah, but he’ll need to make sure he’s fully vetted.
Katie Leeson
Yeah. 100. But not putting so much pressure on myself that I settle either.
I think it’s very important for me now that I’m of an age where I don’t have to settle and I can make the right choices for me so that I want to put some time, like conscious time into that and then also really just do work that brings me joy with my own coach.
Just when things were changing and I was deciding to go into being on my own and being a consultant, he said to me, you’re now at a point where you can just choose businesses to work with, where you’re going to have fun.
Dawn McGruer
That’s a whole revelation, isn’t it, Whether you’ve just. Just thinking about that and it landing. It’s like, yeah, now is my time now Is the. The shift.
Have you experienced much in terms of judgment, in terms of societal guidelines, in terms of ages, what we should be doing, marriages, babies, all of that jazz?
Katie Leeson
I don’t know if I’ve had it on me, but I’ve given it to myself. So I’m still. I’m really fortunate that I’m really close with my friends that I went to school with. And there’s a group of four of us.
They’re all married with kids, and they all did it around the same time. And I still was, like, flapping around, messing about, trying to figure out what I wanted and who I was.
And at that time, I remember feeling so lonely because they were all off having babies and they were all off on a Monday so they could all do something together. And I wasn’t there because I was in work.
And I think in my 20s and 30s, middle 30s probably, I really struggled with that, and I struggled with not having what everyone else, what you should have, and turning 40 now and not having kids. It does play on your mind. It does. That clock is very real. But I also don’t know if I’m right to be a mom or if I want to be a mom.
Dawn McGruer
It’s really honest to. To open up to that, because I think a lot of people just assume that it is, like, that’s the natural cycle for me.
I chose not to have children, and I get asked a lot. You know, I. I’ve been with partner a long time, not married, just never had the desire.
And again, with children, I just, again, it wasn’t something that I was passionate about. And I think people struggle to understand that in reverse because society’s conditioned us, and I think it is tough.
We put these timelines on ourselves, we put these societal pressures on ourselves, even if no one else is. So we have the right to choose. And I think the thing is, it’s a bit like your career. You talk about it evolves. I feel like that’s what life is.
We don’t know what’s going to happen.
Katie Leeson
You really don’t. And I also. The thing, the realization I’ve come to is everybody wants what everyone else has got.
So no matter what, I could look at my friends with kids and their husbands and think, I want that. They’re looking at me living my life.
Dawn McGruer
Doing all this exciting thing, sitting on a private island.
Katie Leeson
Sitting on a private island, doing a.
Dawn McGruer
Podcast with you on a Wednesday.
Katie Leeson
Exactly. And that’s something that they will want. So I’ve just learned to be very great. Gratitude is a Massive thing.
And I’m so grateful for what I’ve created and the life that I’ve made. And Fozzie is a big part of that, to be fair, he helps fill that sort of nurturing void that I might have because he’s just a little angel baby.
Dawn McGruer
Well, I can relate to that. Paddy and Murphy are my little babies. I clearly birthed those.
And you know, in all seriousness, I think one of the funniest messages that you sent when we were preparing to come to the island, it was like when you’re playing it out and you read it back, as a business owner, you think about the life and you talk about having fun. And I sent you a message, I was like, right, so just be on the jetty. I’ll pick you up on the speedboat.
And you were like, yeah, this is the life I should be having. And I think the thing is, is that when we think about the infinite possibilities and having the fun, like, what does that look like for Katie?
I mean, clearly the private island has been an amazing, amazing time for me getting to know you and also for you meeting, you know, the rest of my network. But what do you want to be doing? Like, what is fun for Katie?
Katie Leeson
Oh, I don’t know. I just love life. I just love being silly and I love spending time with my friends and just going rogue every now and again.
Like, I just want to do fun. It’s. For me, it’s memories. Memories over. I’m always memories over money. I’m not very. I love nice things, do not get me wrong.
And I spend far too much money on clothes and bags and. But I’m all about memories and a lot of it now is about spending that with my parents as well. I try every year to go away with them and have time.
So I’ve got those memories with them.
Dawn McGruer
I love that. I love that. Because the thing is, is yesterday I shared whether it’s an uplifting fact or depressing, I don’t know.
But we have around 4, 000 weeks in our existence and when we bring our conscious mind to this, because 95 of what we do is not in our control every day. Because we’re living in our subconscious.
When we bring conscious action to it and we have that thought about family, they’re not going to be here forever. We have to make every moment matter. What is the impact or legacy that you feel passionate about that you want to carve out in your life?
Katie Leeson
Feel like I have been on such a journey of leading a company that was such fast paced Growth and learning along the way of how to do things differently, how you can be a different manager, how can you can be a different leader? That I would love to share that and help other people feel that they can do that as well.
And my big passion at the moment is the values piece, knowing what a difference it would have made to me as younger Katie if I’d have known those values. Would I be in a different position if would I made different choices? And I think we’re living in a world now. We’ve talked about it.
Comparison culture is massive.
And I think what you see online is just, we know it’s the highlights real, but you can’t help sitting there thinking why, Like, I want what they’ve got or I should be there.
And I think I’m really passionate about leaving a legacy that helps young people understand themselves better in order to make decisions that are right for them, not in order just compare with everyone else.
Dawn McGruer
Well, I always like to have a little bit of a giggle on the podcast and I love the fact that every guest I have always shares a little bit of vulnerability, a bit of their authentic self. And I’m always sharing stories because honestly, I have the most embarrassing stories in life ever.
What is the most embarrassing story you’ve had in your entrepreneurial life or commercial life? I can’t wait to hear this.
Katie Leeson
There’s loads. Because I’m such. The one that’s just like.
The one that’s come to the front of my mind was it was when I was doing work experience at the BBC on Watchdog.
Dawn McGruer
Oh, my God.
Katie Leeson
So I was doing. Because at this point I thought I wanted to be a journalist because I loved Heat magazine and I just wanted to.
Dawn McGruer
We all loved Heat magazine.
Katie Leeson
I just wanted to write about celebrities. That’s all I wanted to do. I just.
Dawn McGruer
I love the depth, but I can’t.
Katie Leeson
I can’t spell and my grandma’s terrible. But anyway, yeah, so for some reason I got work experience on Watchdog. I don’t know why I thought that would translate into a role at Heat magazine.
Anyway, I was like 17 and we were just sat in this tiny little box room, these. All these work experience people. And we were just opening the letters that people had sent in because it was all letter based at that time.
We opened one of the letters and this white powder came out and we were like, oh, shoot. So it was around the time when there were anthrax scares. So we came out of this room and we’re like, excuse me. We found some powder and the One.
And we’re like, right, okay, shut the whole of the BBC down. Everyone had to evacuate. We had to stay in the watchdog building in the studio. And the man in that. The suit. We had the men in the suit come in.
Dawn McGruer
Oh, the white.
Katie Leeson
The hams. What are they called? The thingy suits, like the.
Dawn McGruer
Yeah, one of them white space suits. Oh, my God.
Katie Leeson
The space suits came in, literally. And I mean, when we had to close the BBC, it was that whole building. They tested it. It was printing powder from the comp slips.
Dawn McGruer
Oh, my God. Oh, my God. See, I feel slightly better now because when I tell my stories, which I will share with you, there’s. There’s particularly worse one.
Well, the worst one is the easy Jet story. But one of my stories was going into a really important meeting. And again, I was probably about similar ages as you’ve on your work experience.
And you know when you’re kind of making a great sort of like entrance first impression. I’m going into a board meeting, so all men. I’m the only female. I’d just been promoted. So I had this beautiful white shirt on, black trousers.
And as I went into the door, the meeting room had like one of these big kind of like fire exit handles on it. So which just as I walked in, caught into the button of my shirt. So as I entered the office, I went in full bra, open shirt, no buttons.
And I’m not sure I will ever get past that. And you know what? Even to this, even to this day, when I walk into a room, I always naturally just go to the front, even if I haven’t got buttons.
Because that embarrassment level, I mean, like, I feel like I’m blushing now even telling the story. It was bad. So I think the thing is, is that, you know, like, if we can still do all right in life, you know, there’s hope for everybody.
Like, you know, literally every day I’ve.
Katie Leeson
Got friends that are like, how are you as successful as what as you are? Because you, like, how do you get by? I don’t know.
I went to do a cold water dip just the day before we came here, and it was three rounds of cold water dips. Second round. The guy was like, right, you can probably go in a little bit. Because I was like this. I’m.
He said, you can probably go in a little bit further. So I tried it. There was two of us in this bath thing. Tried it, tried to go down for can’t do it.
Slipped, I fell in, splashed the guy next to me who was like, really Struggling with the cold. I splashed him with cold water because I was like, and this is, this is my life. Yeah, I know.
Well, I know I went up to further than I definitely intended but this.
Dawn McGruer
Is me, but this is it and it’s having the ability to laugh at yourself. And I think the thing in life, right, and especially in business, when, when it gets tough, if you can’t laugh at yourself, who can?
And I think this is what we need to understand on social media when people go on there, we’ve been around for 20 years doing what we’ve been doing. It was not an overnight success possess. And the thing is is we all still make mistakes every single day.
Anyone who watches my behind the scenes, you will know some of my stories are cringe worthy but these are things that make me me and make you you. So if there was one parting gift that you can leave our amazing listeners, what would be the one piece of advice that you would like to share?
Katie Leeson
I think just be relentless in the pursuit of your own goals. Don’t let other people stop you or put you off.
If you’re passionate about something and you really want to do it and you know what your goals are and you’ve got that urgency inside you and there’s a drive that coming from your values, then go for it.
Dawn McGruer
So what are your values? If you had to say three key values, what would they be?
Katie Leeson
Mine, I’ve got four. I’ve got learning, which has been every decision I’ve made in career.
So every time I’ve changed, it’s because I wanted to learn something new which I didn’t know until I did my values work care, which is actually what makes me a really good leader and the thing that makes me not the man in the grey suit. Achievement. As a daughter of two teachers, it’s not a surprise really that I need to achieve and then fun.
Dawn McGruer
Definitely. I’m with you on that one.
No, I think we’re quite aligned in the values and I think the exercise you did with us on the event was really interesting because I love the fact that we start to attach actions to values and that’s when it starts to get interesting. So if people want to know more about Katie and her amazing journey, where is the best place to come and connect?
Katie Leeson
LinkedIn, LinkedIn, Instagram, the website. I’ve also got a mailing list so you can go and it’s just katieleson.co.uk and then my socials are all just at KatieLeason, so it’s fairly easy.
Dawn McGruer
Oh, well, thank you so much. It’s been a blast. And thank you for spending time on the private island. It’s been amazing and I’m sure we’ll be back.
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